Forum:Gil's mother
i cannot believe no one has put this up. anyone interested in the theory that gil's mum is from skifander? also gil and zeetha could be related Yep, this is the current theory. Of course, we could always be surprised with something completely different. By the way, welcome to the wiki! Be sure to check out the links in the navigation box on the right hand side, particularly the Community Portal and the Manual of Style. Once you log in, you can also sign your posts with four tildes ( ~~~~ ), so we know who we're talking to. :) --mnenyver 15:32, 20 April 2008 (UTC) :I would make a little bit of sense. If nothing else, the idea that they are a very matriarchical society might be the reason that Klaus thinks they want Gil dead for the simple fact that he was born male. Another idea is that baby Gil 'saw' something he wasn't supposed to see or was somewhere he 'wasn't supposed to be' or such. Of course, as Mnenyver pointed out, it could be simply because the Skifander did some kind of great lottery and drew Gil's name for the Great Sacrifice or some other silliness. Donovan Ravenhull 12:45, 23 April 2008 (UTC) : examining these pictures earlier leads me to suspect that perhaps his mother was a giesterdame given that some of their armor and with Klaus's fondness for Lucrezia he might have sought them out. perhaps his wife was loremistress milvistle?Eagle235 03:45, 14 May 2008 (UTC) Further evidence of this theory lies in Zeetha's full name "Daughter of Chump". Zeetha has said she knows what the word means in Europe. I suggest that is the meaning of her name. Klaus was shipped somewhere by Lucrezia, who was suprised that he made it back. How about Skifander as that place? When the box arrived, and they asked who he was, he said "Just call me chump." That of course, might very well make Gil and Zeetha brother and sister. Additional clue: When Klaus ingested the wasp, the word he was saying could be Zantabraxus, the green haired spark queen from the works. That means that Gil's mother was also a spark (which accounts for the power of his spark), and that she tried to kill Klaus Allen Doum 01:48, 10 June 2008 (UTC) :Given the apparently matriarchal nature of Skifander, it's more likely that Chump is the name of Zeetha's mother (who could still very well be Gilgamesh's mother as well). Killiana ::--Or I could immediately afterward discover that Chump has, indeed, been stated as being male. Ignore me! Killiana ::Think about this; Klaus got shanghaied, ended up Foglios-know-where, became renowned as a great warrior and married a queen. I was re-watching Disney's John Carter and had a bit of a brainwave; When John meets Tars Tarkus, he introduces himself as "Captain John Carter, Virginia". Thus, throughout the movie, Tars keeps calling John "Virginia". In light of "Just call me 'Chump'.", it makes me think that Zeetha wasn't hallucinating when she came to Europa - at least about the furniture being on the ceiling and such. Skifander isn't some hidden African kingdom - it's a kingdom on MARS. Kalaong (talk) Zeetha says, (Vol. VI p 61) "you Jägers remind me a lot of my people back home." Later, Mamma Gkika (who has cyan hair, not much less or more strange than green, and in the same way) is surprised at how well Gil has responded to Jäger medicine. If Gil's mother is Skifandrian, and the Heterodynes based the Jäger process on Skiff physiology, then naturally Jägers would resemble other Skifandrians and Gil would respond well to Jäger medicine. The kicker is this: what if Skiff men are given the active ingredient(s) in Jägerbräu as infants, a process which kills many of them (making them rarer than Skiff women — though perhaps not as rare as if they were not already selected for survival)? If you were a dad whose mom wanted to give your son a treatment that had, say, a 30% chance of killing him among her own people, and a 90% chance of death or debilitation (and perhaps the Skiff do away with the boys who don't respond well) among the general population, mightn't you decide that the odds just weren't good enough, and decide that it would be better to "keep the boy alive" by taking him back home? It doesn't exactly explain why Klaus would think that the Skiff would send someone to kill Gil... maybe that's just him, KDL notwithstanding... Or maybe it's related to the political situation I proposed elsewhere... ⚙Zarchne 23:41, 9 August 2008 (UTC) :Never mind that the jagerbrau was invented by the Heterodynes long before Bill and Barry, given to their best warriors only, and one of the results is changes to appearance... which accounts for Mamma Gkika's teal hair. Jagers all look different; do you think Maxim's purple skin has plot significance too? And yes, Zeetha is reminded of her people back home. Is it that unlikely that two groups could be independently similar? I think Zeetha would have noticed things like the sharp pointy teeth long before she made the comment about their behavior being like her people. I don't personally find it unlikely that Gil is somehow related to the people of Skifander. It's also possible that Bill and Barry visited Skifander at some point, so it's even possible they might have left behind some of the jagerbrau. Heck, maybe one of the earlier Heterodynes did so-- we know that the family has been making jagers for six or seven hundred years, based on the ages of the generals. Maybe the Skifandrians developed an enhancement based on the brew; that might account for their ferocity and strange hair color. However. There is no evidence to support such claims. Mamma Gkika's hair is just like Maxim's purple skin and the horns some of the others have: a result of the jagerbrau. And one that appears to be totally random, so without serious changes to the formula it would not produce a race of green-haired people. As for Gil's quick healing.... Zeetha sprained her ankle. There was no miraculously fast recovery there. So whatever caused that in Gil, it's not Skifandrian. ::Actually, that's . ( 21:08, 18 September 2008 (UTC)) :::It's page 61 in the print version. ⚙Zarchne 03:09, 20 September 2008 (UTC) :: LadyVivamus: ::#Sure, jägerbräu is centuries old; I'm sure Skifander is centuries old as well. Bill and Barry know about it (and perhaps even Lucrezia? — she knows, but how?), I suggest, because of their connection with the old Heterodynes, rather than having discovered it recently. ::#I admit I don't have a complete theory of the relationship between Skifandrian physiology and the Jäger process. ::#*Just because I haven't thought of a significance for Maxim's purple skin doesn't mean the Foglios don't have one in mind. ::#*Actually, purple, like green, is also different from normal melanin colors due to the amount of cyan or other blue pigment. ::#It's possible that the similarity is a coincidence, yes. "Unlikely" (or rather, "likeliness") depends on what kind of a story this is. I think we've seen that things tend to be connected. The Foglios are hiding male Skifandrians from us (admittedly, they haven't shown any other female Skiff besides Zantabraxus and maybe Noopta, either). Is it because they don't exist? Is it because we would also recognize them as Jägerkin? Is it because they all look exactly like Klaus (or, more seriously, Bang)? I don't think it's because they haven't decided yet. ::#Zeetha's recovery occurred in the absence of Jäger medicine. We don't know how she would have responded to Mamma Gkika's ; the hypothesis is that it would have worked surprisingly well/quickly on her, also. ::See also Zeetha, Daughter of Chump/Mad, Skifander#Possibly Relevant Outside Information, Talk:Bangladesh DuPree ::⚙Zarchne 03:09, 20 September 2008 (UTC) Note that pretty much everything about Klaus's knowledge of Skifander can be explained by the fact that the Heterodyne Boys (presumably accompanied by Klaus) have visited Skifander in the past, or at least know of it (Agatha had heard of it from stories Barry told her). The only definite link is Klaus's statement that Zeetha may be there to kill Gil, and even that could be explained as retaliation for something Klaus did when he was there. I think this is still the most likely theory, but why take the obvious solution when you can indulge in some poorly supported wild speculation! Here's my alternative theory: First: consider where Lucrezia would have sent Klaus to keep him out of the way. She didn't want to kill him, but she sent him somewhere that she was surprised he was able to return from. Likely properties for such a place are: remote, filled with loyal allies, and hidden somewhere no-one would know to look. Interestingly the most likely location is the home of a different society of matriarchal warrior-women with odd coloured hair. Could Gil's mother be a Geisterdamen? In support of this, note that Gil is dressed in Geister clothing , while Agatha and Von Zinzer aren't. An indication that he is one of them perhaps? The rebellion by could explain how they escaped (and is perhaps a candidate for Gil's mother). The strong paralells between the Skiffandrians and the Geisterdamen are also very interesting. Could it be possible that the Geisters are a heretic offshoot of Skiffandrians that split off some time in the past to worship Lucrezia? If they're considered heretical enemies, that could also give a reason why Skiffandrians might want to kill Gil. Brianmce 22:54, 27 November 2008 (UTC) :I can see that being the case. At least one person has commented that the word "ni", I believe, is common to Geisterspeak and Skiff. We really know nothing about what non-Geister members of their world or non-Royal Skifandrians look like. "Barry came back" -- from the same place Klaus went? To my mind, the main argument against it is that Zeetha hasn't shown any recognition of the Geisters, but that's arguing from lack of data -- especially parlous in this context. GEARZarchne 20:51, 28 November 2008 (UTC) The evidence in favor of Gil having been born in Skifander is worth reprising. The most dramatic thing to suggest this is the fact that Klaus can , but that, in itself, could be explained by a much earlier adventure with the Heterodyne Boys. The fact that an incident involving Gil in his infancy apparently , and that Klaus from his exile with Gil in tow, plus the fact that Klaus had been , first fighting the chaos that had overtaken Europa, and then managing it afterwards, to explore and have adventures makes this conclusion difficult to avoid. Since it is not directly shown or stated, the possibility of a surprising turn of events cannot, of course, completely be excluded. Quadibloc 13:02, 30 November 2008 (UTC) :OK, given that evidence, let's posit a scenario. Is the following possible/likely? --DryBrook 19:21, 2 February 2009 (UTC) :Twenty-two years ago, Bill proposes to Lucrezia. Klaus declares his intention to save his friend Bill from a ; Klaus may or may not be in love with Lucrezia. Lucrezia responds by dumping him, , and portaling him to the she can think of -- a place that Team Heterodyne (Bill, Barry, Miss Mongfish, and maybe Klaus) visited once on an adventure -- a remote jungle city named Skifander. Klaus wakes up and realizes that he's lost the girl and his best friend. The Skifs ask him, "Quod zeebol brax?" Klaus says, "I am such a chump." Assuming that's his name, they call him "Chump" thereafter and Klaus is so depressed that he doesn't correct them. :Skip forward a few months. A sparky enemy kidnaps princess Zantabraxus. Klaus rises to the occasion, rescues the princess, and earns a reputation as a great warrior. Klaus and Zanta (who is 20 or so years old at the time) are married and they have whom Zanta names Zeetha. Klaus is truly happy for a year or two. While Zeetha is still an infant, Klaus and Zanta have a second child. No name is given to this male infant, as his mother plans to sacrifice him to . To protect the child, with the baby. He names it Gilgamesh. Zantabraxus hushes the gossip as best she can and infant Zeetha of the great warrior named Chump. :Skip forward 19 years. Outside Strumhalten, Klaus , Zanta, looking much as she did when he married her. Except, it's not Zantabraxus; it's her daughter, Zeetha. Zeetha, who hasn't seen Chump since she was 3 or so, doesn't recognize Klaus. Klaus gets distracted by a house falling on him and they don't get to talk. Whether or not Klaus figures out that Zeetha is Gil's sister, he chooses to only that the Skif may assassinate him. Zeetha probably has never been told that she had a brother. She certainly doesn't suspect that it's Gil. Nevertheless, when Zeetha and Gil meet, they immediately like old friends. :Which theory has been previously mentioned at least here. --DryBrook 19:25, 2 February 2009 (UTC) ::There's just one change I would say is needed to that scenario. ::Of course, it is possible that Zeetha is not related to Gil, and is not the daughter of Queen Zantabraxus, but instead of Princess Chump. Chump could be a perfectly normal Skifandrian name with a normal meaning. ::But the idea of Klaus as "Chump" is certainly an attractive possibility. And the idea that Klaus, on his own, instead of simply becoming involved with an ordinary Skifandrian woman, marries the Queen... instead of Barry, who always used to end up with the High Priestess... is attractive too. ::So, if we accept the whole scenario to its fullest extent, here's the one small change. Zeetha doesn't look older than Gil. If anything, she might be younger than he is. Or they could be exact contemporaries. So I would suspect that Zeetha is not Gil's older sister, but his (fraternal, of course) twin sister. Since "scoundrel" isn't a word that comes to mind in describing Agatha, this should pose no excessive problems of comparison with another popular story. --Quadibloc 23:34, 1 March 2009 (UTC) ::: Yeah, except I think Klaus married the rightful heir (by someone's estimation) to the throne before or after helping her overthrow an usurper. Just as Lucrezia planned. I'm not too interested in whether or not Gil and Zeetha are actually twins, although I just thought of another reason (in utero hormonal effects) to think they might be (Zeetha more Skiff-Masculine (monster) than average of her race, especially w.r.t. half-breeds; Gil more Skiff-Feminine (Bishie-like) than expected... hardly any monster at all). ⚙Zarchne 05:56, 2 March 2009 (UTC) ::::"Just as Lucrezia planned."? Interesting thought. So, Lucrezia wasn't just trying to get Klaus physically out of Europa, but was trying to set him up with a new girl? I'd to see that myself. Personally, it doesn't seem like her style to me, but it'd be a fun story. YMMV. --DryBrook 15:08, 2 March 2009 (UTC) ::::: I think I've already posted (on the list) why Lucrezia/Other would send Klaus (in a gift box, tagged "from a secret admirer") to Zantabraxus after assuring him that he didn't need to worry about Europa, since she was turning Good. But I wouldn't be surprised if not very people found it. That's called "steganography". ⚙Zarchne 19:08, 2 March 2009 (UTC) :::: Rightful heir? Does this mean that Gil is in two lines of succession? (Will we see the United Empire of Europa and Skifander?) Argadi 16:14, 2 March 2009 (UTC) ::::: Well... It seems likely that, whether or not Klaus interpreted the threat to Gil's life correctly (or it even exists), that Skifander would not allow a male ruler. There are other reasons to believe Gil won't be the combined emperor of Europa and Skifander, but I think that Zeetha being the heir apparent is the main one. ::::: So, allied, at best. Of course, the current theory that runs through this whole page from the beginning is that Klaus and Zantabraxus are married (and we know Klaus would like to visit his wife; he complains about not getting to see her), so by hypothesis they are already as allied as they're going to get barring improved communications. It would certainly seem like the alliance could produce more fruit than it has so far. ::::: Assuming all this is correct, there probably are other members of the Skiff royal family or peers or citizens or whatever who aren't too pleased with Gil's situation, or they are fighting ongoing civil unrest, or just as a society they aren't that interested in communication with the outside world. It's like in the Islamic world, a lot of women like the veil. (Which mentioned probably makes readers more confused than enlightened... sigh) ::::: ⚙Zarchne 19:08, 2 March 2009 (UTC) Is this page ( ) an intentional allusion to this page ( )? An allusion of the Zeetha-holds-Gil's-answers variety? :I have several things to add to this, none of which are necessarily related and some better possibilities than others. ::# Gil and Zeetha could be half-siblings. Perhaps Klaus had an affair that resulted in Gil being born (Gil and Zeetha could have even been born around the same time). Then it was ordered that baby Gil be killed so that he never grew up to think he had a claim to the throne (competing with his legitimate sister), or to hide the family shame. Of course, Klaus wouldn't allow that. ::# If they are full siblings, Gil could be a year older. When the first-born was a male, they decided to keep him around just in case there were no female heirs, but once a female was born, they wanted to kill him to keep the female claim the best. Maybe even sacrifice him for his sister's health. Perhaps they don't like having male royals around. ::# Zeetha and Klaus said a lot of things to each other that we couldn't understand. It's thoroughly possible that Klaus told Zeetha who he was, or that she was able to presume it from the things he did say. If Klaus is her father and Gil her brother, she could be completely aware of this, but choosing not to mention it right now as there seem to be other more important issues to deal with. She did seem to take to Gil rather easily for someone that no one in her group trusts. ::# All we were told about Zeetha's mission is that her family decided to send her to ( ) For all we know, she could have been sent to check up on what had happened to Chump/Klaus and his son. "What is your father doing? He said he would be back by now." After all, they've clearly had visitors to the city before (both Klaus and Barry knew about it), and it doesn't seem like they sent ambassadors to check on the outer world's going ons before. ::# It's also thoroughly possible that she actually was sent to kill Gil, but he's been awfully protected up until now, and in the time she's spent out here she's found higher priorities. Her look of surprise could have been because she didn't expect him to know about this mission. Heck, she could have even been so sick on the trip out, that she forgot much of why she'd been sent anyway. :And, of course, they could not at all be related. I'm a fan of the Geisterdamen theory as well. (Have we ever seen a male Geisterdamen?) AmariT 21:14, 30 May 2009 (UTC) :: Actually, Klaus and Zeetha really said very little to each other in Skiff. Klaus shouts something ("Djorok'ku Skifandias von?!") at Zeetha which is clearly a question and clearly about Skifander- my bet is something along the lines of "You came from Skifander?!" they have a very obvious exchange- "Zur baken Skiff?!" ("You speak Skiff?!") "Kar! Mor baken Skiff!" ("Yes! I speak Skiff!") and then Klaus gets out 2 and a half words (the last of which is obviously "Zantabraxus") before the wasp flies down his throat. Although we have no idea whether or not Klaus actually recognises Zeetha or not, it's pretty obvious she has no idea who he is (or she wouldn't have been surprised that he speaks Skiff) and he didn't have the opportunity to tell her anything- although that may have been what he was trying to do when the wasp got him (possibly something as basic as "I've me Zantabraxus", since it's unlikely he'd be willing to loudly talk about his personal intimate relationships with a possibly antagonistic stranger he'd just met.) Arcane Azmadi 10:37, September 27, 2009 (UTC) :: Cheerfully pointless nitpick: 'Geisterdamen' is plural; 'Geisterdame' is singular; and I think that makes Gil a 'Geistermann'. -- Corgi 02:34, 31 May 2009 (UTC) I'm surprised that in the running theory of Gil having a Skifandese mother and that Zeetha is Gil's half sibling that the idea that Klaus is the parent they share is considered a given. Maybe Gil and Zeetha are half siblings, and the parent they share is their mother. : I think people just want to give the Baron more family, since he lost so much of it. -- Corgi 18:56, 4 July 2009 (UTC) :: It is a given that Klaus was sent to Skifander after imbibing Lucrezia's mickey and he was away for four years. The destination and the timing have been admitted by Phil in an interview he recently gave. :: I never got that Gil and Zeetha were half siblings. I figure them to be full sibs. They carry on like sibs. The artist has dropped visual clues as to the resemblance. Also the tale tellers have dropped some teasing (and deniable) hints that Zeetha is the baron's daughter. If you look closely at Zeetha's actions and responses, she looks like she has already figured it out. She knows Skifander better than we do.--Rej ¤¤? 01:05, 5 July 2009 (UTC) ::: All that still might be the case if they're half-siblings. But I'm really hoping for Zeetha to turn out to be Klaus's daughter, mostly because the relationship dynamics between the two of them would be fantastic. — m (talk) 01:41, 5 July 2009 (UTC) :::: Can you think of a better candidate for Chump, a great warrior, than our favorite reluctant tyrant? --Rej ¤¤? 17:44, 8 July 2009 (UTC) ::: You might see 'visual clues as to the resemblance', I'm seeing the style of the artist. Also, people can carry on like sibs without ever being related - it's a straw clue. On the whole, though, it's a strong theory. -- Corgi 06:49, 5 July 2009 (UTC) :There's no reason why Zeetha couldn't share a mother, but not a father with Gil. That scenario is enough to explain everything we've seen so far (i.e. sibling camaraderie, etc.). Plus, it makes the "hint" outside Castle Heterodyne that Zeetha is Klaus's more cleverly misleading. :But, if leaving Skifander forced Klaus to abandon both a wife and a daughter, there's some additional pathos to be had. For instance, Klaus has already crossed swords with said possible daughter once. All in all, I'm willing to RAFO. --DryBrook 14:15, 8 July 2009 (UTC) ::There's no physiological reason, but the "Chump" contribution is too much fun not to chew on a little. ::Personally, I doubt that Gil's mother was responsible for the threat to his life. Klaus's inclusion of "I haven't seen my wife in years" as one of the annoyances of empire doesn't really sound like the sentiment of a man who fled the country to keep said wife from killing their baby boy. (Of course, he later claims that every Sparky woman he's known has tried to kill him. Perhaps either he didn't marry a Spark -- in which case it wasn't Zantabraxus, presumably -- or they got over it. Or he was exaggerating. The Secret Blueprints have his mom as a Spark, but rather nice and responsible. The point is, he sounds like he'd rather like to see her, and not because of a deadly grudge.) My pet theory is that Klaus was persuaded to leave Skifander during some problems with his wife's political enemies, probably with a plan to put Gil somewhere comparatively safe and head back. Which obviously didn't work out well. PersephoneKore 19:27, 9 July 2009 (UTC) ::: Oh, I would lay Wulfenbucks on 'has tried to kill me' and 'haven't seen my wife in years' are quite compatible sentiments. Some men like dangerous women after all, ne? -- Corgi 21:09, 9 July 2009 (UTC) ::::Fair point. :) I still lean toward his mother being an exception, but yes, I can see him marrying somebody who at some point tried to kill him, and still wanting to see her. I find it more of a strain to think that 'haven't seen her in years' is compatible with 'tried to kill Gil.' PersephoneKore 21:17, 9 July 2009 (UTC) : Maybe Klaus is just being paranoid about green-haired women coming to kill Gil. The idea seemed to be a surprise to Z. -Grumpy Celt 14:27, 14 July 2009 (UTC) :: Probably it means something specific to Zeetha that Klaus would think a Skiff warrior would be trying to kill Gil, right? ⚙Zarchne 16:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC) :: I haven't seen it mentioned, but has anyone figured that Skifander may be an amazonian society? It is mentioned that their goddess Ashtara "among other things, controls fertility". That along with the fact that their Queen is a Spark may mean that they procreate without men - either killng them by tradition, or simply not able to sire male offsprings at all. So maybe Klaus comment to have "kept Gil alive" and that being the possible reason why a Skifandrian may be after him could mean that Skifandrian society has a tradition of killing male children born there (there may even be an actual justification - for example, if Skifandrian procreation can normally sire females only, there may be some horrible drawback for a boy given birth to by one of them), and Klaus is worried that Zeetha is either an assassin sent after Gil, or that she would kill him if she knew because of her beliefs. - Vree, 14 Sept 2010 : I am betting on Klaus being the father of both Gil and Zeetha. I am also betting that they have the same mother, whoever she might be. Both Gil and Zeetha have Klaus's expressive eyebrows, but they share similar chins, neither of them being anything like Klaus's chin. Just as significant, they all three have the same cowlick. Billy Catringer 06:48, October 18, 2010 (UTC) ]] : :Notice that both Zeetha and Gil have rounded faces just like the Skiffanderian Queen. I suspect that there is something rather Saotome-like with Klaus. He must have made a deal with this formidable woman to get him and Gil away from her and her Queendom. He may not even know that he has a daughter, suggesting that Zeetha and Gil are fraternal twins. Certainly they are not different in age by more than a year. Billy Catringer 13:33, October 20, 2010 (UTC) : My theory is that after Klaus got dumped by Lucrezia he was met and taken in by the Skifanders. For one reason or another he does not go by his given name but by the name Chump. Zeetha says that Klaus/Chump is remembered as a great warrior so this leads me to believe that men do have a place in Skif society. I think its just a simple reversal of our own. Most cultures are male dominated but in the case of the Skif its women who dominate. Klaus meets and marries the Skiff crown princes and all is well till the kids come. I don’t think its ever been stated how old Gil and Zeetha are but they do seem close in age if not fraternal twins. At any rate we know that the Heterodynes have never had a lot of girls born to them. It seem that over the course of the families history less then a handful of girls were ever born. I wonder if the Skif royal family has a similar rarity with boys. If boys are not a common occurrence it would explain why Gils life could be in danger. Since this is a matriarchic society it could be considered a bad sign for the royal family to have a boy born to it. Klaus, not about to let his son be killed over superstitions, does the only thing he can do run. He knows if he takes Zeetha, an heir to the thrown the Skif would never stop hunting him so he leaves her behind. He probably bet that it was even odds that the Skif would go looking for him and Gil but took no chances and kept Gils identity a secret for as long as he could. Since all this happened probably happened when Gil and Zeetha were still in diapers its no surprise that he doesn’t recognize her. Zeetha grew up hearing about her father but never knew what he looked like or what his real name thus explaining her confusion. Wilahelm2 What if Skifander simply doesn't allow male ''sparks, ''and Klaus took Gil because he was sure his son would be one? Lady Tragic : I believe it has been stated that Skifandrians don't like twins, so simply being Zeetha's fraternal twin could be why Gil is a wanted man. :: Thanks for that information. Do you remember where you saw that information? :: (And please sign in or get an account so you can put a name on your edits.)) Argadi (talk) 00:21, September 12, 2015 (UTC) :: My personal theory, from the moment I read the "you are alive" line from Klaus, is that Gil is supposed to be dead because he died once, when he and Klaus were un Skifander, and Klaus revived him. However, Skifandrians do not allow resurrections (much like noble families), seeing them as perversions of the natural order, or something. Therefore, they'd want to kill Gil not because of who he is, but because he was meant to have stayed dead. This is kind of jossed by Zeetha never showing revulsion towards resurections, but she's spent a long enough time in Europa that she could have simply gotten used to the local mores. Canisse, January 28, 2017